Ok, discordamos logo na base da argumentação.  



Nevermind.

Most of them don't care, all they see is an idea of a player most never saw. And those that care are getting used to this signings.

(forget that last part, no none is getting used to it)



Pois, do mal o menos. fazer o que o último clube fez.

Mas boa ideia era trazer mesmo alguém que fizesse a diferença, não dependesse do corpanzil para cortar bolas (a maioria em falta), não despachasse bolas para onde está virado e soubesse jogar futebol.

Só vi 3 jogos dele. Só vi isto (mentira, nos dois últimos nem isso vi). Mas se calhar estou a ser injusto. Verdade seja dita, também não me deu muitas oportunidades de mudar de opinião...

curioso. vi poucos ou nenhuns comentários às palavras deste nosso companheiro... tanto a estas como às de ontem.  

será que um adepto que teve o jogador no seu clube (e pelas suas palavras, parece perceber minimamente do que está a falar) não vos merece qualquer crédito, ou estão simplesmente a ignorá-lo... porque sim. porque não disse o que gostavam que tivesse dito?

curioso...

pois, basicamente é isso... do pouco que vi dele corta algumas bolas em carrinho (engraçado como não é tão frequente vê-lo a cortar bolas no jogo aéreo, sempre são 95kg para impulsionar), às vezes consegue atrapalhar os jogadores adversários com a sua presença (não é normal ter um volume daqueles à frente) e logo que consegue a bola, despacha-a; para onde estiver virado (normalmente sai pela lateral)

 

You probably could if he would want to go to you. Last year Juventus offered 6 million euros, we wanted 8 apparently. But now he only has one year left on his contract.

That said, I don't think he would leave Twente for your club, especially not right now. He gains Dutch nationality in september if he stays, which will make him elligible for the Dutch national team and elligible to play in England, which apparently is his dream. So I think he'll either extend his contract with us and will be sold next year, or he'll be sold this winter.


Your English is fine mate.

He looked slow. But that doesn't have to be a problem. Wisgerhof, one of our central defenders, is very slow. But he's able to make up for some of that with his experience, his vision, anticipation and decision making. Onyewu however didn't really do that, his decision making was slow and poor, and his passing was really bad. His strengths is obiously the physical part, he's very strong and good in the air, good in marking and tackling. And he has a very good mentality. So he's good in the basics of defense, but don't expect anything more from him. I think the only thing he'd add to your team is physical strength and height. Also, he seems to lack alot of confidence, which isn't that strange I guess considering his injury and career slump.

É claro que não disse o que gostávamos que tivesse dito. Se este jogador está tão perto de assinar pelo nosso clube, é normal que nos seja preferível ouvir falar positivamente dele do que negativamente.

Mas a opinião do Filter sobre o jogador também tem de ser analisada no contexto. Como já disse ontem (e peço desculpa pela gralha que cometi ao dizer que teve 18 meses lesionado, não era verdade), o Onyewu teve uma paragem considerável lesionado, e após a lesão quase não jogou, até ser emprestado ao Twente. Isto pode explicar a falta de ritmo que ele demonstrava quando alinhou pelo Twente, bem longe das exibições que fizeram o AC Milan ir buscá-lo ao Standard. Isto é apenas uma hipótese que tenho, não implica que seja assim como estou a dizer.
A verdade é que este jogador "já foi bom". Agora, terá a paragem causado danos irreversíveis às suas qualidades? Ou será que apenas precisa tempo até voltar a ser como era?

Já percebemos que o Onyewu é um jogador grande.. o que não quer dizer que seja um grande jogador.  

So, he is good doing the basic tasks that a central-back must do, right?
Or has he committed a lot of errors leading to goals against his team?

And, how good is he in offensive corners/free kicks? Does he score a lot of goals?

Aproveito a dica da parte de comentar a visão mais fiel do Filter:




Ora aí está, como já disse, nunca me iludi e dava repetir no comentário que escrevi ontem. É exactamente isso que eu penso do jogador (bem e mal) e os meus receios também.

E repito também: um treinador como Domingos pode tirar o melhor proveito dessas virtudes e colmatar os defeitos.

just clear something out for me, when he was at Twente he played mostly as a center-back or as left-back?

Se o Levante tivesse prestado mais atenção ás opiniões dos adeptos do clube de onde ele veio (Sporting) se calhar não teriam tido um dos melhores marcadores do campeonato. 

I'm just going to play devil's advocate here. How good has he been though? He has only performed well in the Belgian league, which you'll have to admit, isn't impressive. He failed at Newcastle United in 2006/2007 aswell, they weren't impressed with him. And why did AC Milan sign him? Would they have signed him if he wasn't free and out of contract? No. He was a cheap backup player. Like I said, I think he's been overhyped a bit in the past.

Well, let me put it this way. If you tell him to mark one player then he'll do an excellent job. But with zone marking and several players to defend, I wasn't impressed. Like I said, his decision making was poor and slow.

You'd think he'd be really good scoring goals from corners with his height. His statistics say he had one great season in the Belgian league where he scored 12 goals, but that's the Belgian league. Besides that season  his goalscoring record seems average, he didn't score for us.

He made the most minutes at center back, especially when Douglas was banned for 5 games. But he has also played as a left back for us when both of our left backs were having injury issues. I don't think I have to tell you that he was bad at left back, but I wouldn't expect otherwise and it's not fair to judge him on that.

ty Filter

Just one more question: do you think that a free transfer is a good deal to bring him to Sporting?

I see your last sentence as the more significant one in your opinion about Onyewu. I think you're judging his ability by his last few performances in Holland which in deed were representative of his lack of good form, confidence and team adaptation.

I only saw him play for Standard Liege a couple times and for AC Milan once, but was pretty obvious to me that he was a hell of a player, with perfect positioning and tactical knowledge, good acceleration but not so good pace, and an incredible heading and jumping ability.

Sporting really needs that! We've always had soft, short and technical defenders (not just defenders, but we're talking about the defense now) that were able to run forward taking the ball and even dribble an opponent and Onyewu is something we actually don't have in years. In the recent past there were threads debating about the need for tall and strong defenders as we constantly concede heading goals from free kicks or corner kicks.

I'm really appreciating your contribution in this forum with very good posts written in an unique perspective, but in this case I will not make an opinion based on Onyewu's experience in your team and I can't ignore our previous knowledge about Sporting needs.

Neste caso não sei se não estavamos mais bem servidos com o Torsiglieri.

Bom...
Sou um defensor da contratação deste jogador porque já o vi jogar várias vezes e fiquei impressionado.
Como já disse, só me preocupam as lesões que este jogador já teve e que lhe têm atrapalhado a carreira.

Quanto às opiniões de um adepto do último clube onde ele esteve, naturalmente que tenho que ter a humildade de ser sensível a elas mas também é preciso perceber que este jogador veio de longa paragem e foi logo desaguar a um campeonato em que se joga fortemente ao ataque. Acredito que não tenham sido tempos fáceis para ele. Não terá sido fácil ganhar logo o ritmo ideal na meia época em que, mesmo assim, conseguiu fazer vários jogos...

Que centrais sem ritmo de jogo chegam a um clube candidato ao título a meio de uma época e mesmo assim lhes corre tudo às mil maravilhas assumindo logo a titularidade?

Tal como essas opiniões merecem crédito, também as opiniões muito favoráveis de quem o treinou e jogou com ele o devem merecer...

Quero acreditar que este jogador, se vier, começando a treinar logo desde o primeiro dia, sem problemas de falta de ritmo de competição e de lesões, será uma opção fabulosa para nós!

É nisto que quero acreditar!

Nem mais! É por isso que eu considero esta uma boa contratação, ainda por cima a custo zero (ou próximo disso) como se diz que vai ser!

It's hard to say for me as I don't exactly know your other defensive players as well as you do. But I think your club aspires to get about the same quality of players that my club aspires to get. I'm not convinced he'd do well for you. He might not do bad, but I think you should at least try to get a player who will do good or better. And I think him being free wouldn't be as good of a deal financially as you might think. A player being free usually results in a higher signing fee and higher wages, and possibly a long contract too. And at his age there's no chance of seeing any money back. To put it short, I'm not convinced it's a good deal, there's alot of risk involved.


I can certainly understand your opinion. Like I said in an earlier post, I initially was very excited too. The idea of him is great, I like that type of player. But to blame his bad performances completely on confidence would be a bit much.

Even if that would be the case. The guy trained for months with AC Milan, against top players. Then he gets loaned out to a much smaller club, Twente. Where Preud'homme, his former manager during his best seasons at Standard, is his manager again. If he isn't going to succeed in an environment like that, then I don't see why he would for you. For us, we had 2 central defenders that we won the Dutch Championship with the season before, so there was no pressure on Onyewu. Preud'homme wanted to give him time to get his rythm and confidence back and build from there. For you, he would be an important signing, and would be expected to perform almost immediately I imagine? How much time are you willing to give him, how many games will you allow him to not perform well? Not many I imagine. There's a very big chance that he won't justify the wages he's on.

It's all about risk assessment. You can never guarantee transfer targets will succeed for you, but you can minimise the risk. And everybody here has to agree that Onyewu has risk written all over him.